Carte de Sejour
After the horrible experience I had getting my student VISA in DC, read about it here, I was dreading applying for my carte de sejour. A carte de sejour is a residency permit in France. Basically you have to get a VISA that allows you to stay in France for a period of time. Then you can go get a carte de sejour, this is the equivalent of an ID card. It also can entitle you to health insurance, a work permit, etc.
Well you can imagine with all the talk of the French fonctionnairres how frustrating it could be and the complications of the matter, did I say it might be complicated. Well for us it could have been extra complicated because we were staying with a friend in one department and eventually going to move to Toulosue which is in another department. Finding an apt can take a while so we weren’t sure if we should apply while in the department we were living in even though we had no intention of staying long term.
I thought of getting my carte de sejour in 24 and then changing my address when I landed in Toulouse, 31. I needed a justificatif de domicile. My friend could simply write an attestation saying that I lived with him etc in the 24. Well, we found an apt sooner than we thought we would in Toulouse so I decided not to apply for the CDS in the 24 and wait until we got to Toulouse. Well then I remembered that I was supposed to apply for it within 60 days of entering France, it was close for me but I still went over the time limit.
We had moved into our apt in Toulouse and started getting set up. We took a day to get my birth certificate translated and all the other things you must do to make your papers acceptable to the French, I thought of dusting them with truffle shavings, but that might be over the top.
It was 66 days after entering France that I was going to apply for my CDS. I thought they are going to give me a big problem over this. I am also not your typical student so that will be a problem too. Apparently in France you are only a student if you are under 26 years old. All discounts offered to students can only be redeemed if you have a student ID and are 26 or under. What do they consider those of us who go back to school and are over 26, lost? We went to the prefecture anyway, Bon courage, never bon chance.
We waited about 30 minutes in line at the Prefecture. When I got to the info counter they said of you are a student you need to go here. She said it as though I would be relieved not to have to stand in line with the lumpen. I thought, great they have a special office just for students. We went there and it was a much shorter line, only students, fonctionnairres that only handled one type of VISA, everyone was in the same boat so you could exchange tips if need be. I spoke to the info woman and she said I could wait since I didn’t have an appointment but since it was in the afternoon it might be best to come back the next day at 9AM. No one had stolen her baguette, she had normal facial expressions, no indignation, and if I am not mistaken, she even smiled.
9AM the next day I went to the office, I think it was called CROUS. I used to think Americans loved their acronyms but the French are big fans of them too. Since I don’t speak French very well I am never sure if a sign on a door that is written in capital letters is the name of the organization or an acronym. I prefer to make up my own meanings for the acronyms, my French ones make little sense so I do it in English. CROUS, Committee for Rescuing Overburdoned University Students. They should have a tagline We like you so much we’ll even give you healthcare.
I had no appointment so I waited. I kept seeing people leave and overhearing their conversations. They had forgotten this paper or that paper or didn’t think this or that was important and certainly it didn’t need to be brought to the appointment. This was clearly an affliction of non-American origins. I had every paper required, even some not required, and I made extra copies of all of them. About 10:15 I was seen. I had everything on the list. She even laughed because I had 2 copies of everything, I thought just in case. I think she was relieved because when she asked for each item I gave her each item. No questions asked, no problems, within 4 minutes I had my recipisse, a receipt that says I have given all my documents am now just waiting to receive my real CDS. In another week or so I expect to have my CDS.
For 2 months I have been agonizing over this and in fact it was quite a simple process. I think the VISA was much more complicated. Since I had such a terrible experience getting my VISA I assumed the same would be true of my Carte de Sejour and it was not. I am legal, for about a year, and then the process starts all over again, agonies and all.
Jean-Jacques and I are PACSED and he is French but that still doesn’t qualify me for anything. If we were married I could get a VISA for the spouse of a French national and I would be able to be here with no problems. So much for liberte, egalite, and fraternite.
Hey, I’ve finally got some good news for you! Being pacsed does count for something in France, and you actually could’ve come over here on a spousal visa (a friend of mine is pacsed to her French bf and just got a spousal visa from the SF consulate last week).
I (and several of my friends are also pacsed, and it gives us the right to have the same cds vie privée et familiale that a married person would get. It allows me to work and everything - the only requirement to get one is that you have to have proof that you’ve lived together for a year. So once your cds is up, just go back in and ask them for the vie privée et familiale one, and you should get it, no problems! Just make sure you put both of your guys’ names on the EDF and France Telecom bills, because those are some of the only documents that are considered to be official.
As an FYI - being pacsed also means you can be put under JJ’s healthcare as his “ayant-droit”, and it also means you two can file taxes together as a couple.
I hoped this was the case but I sent an email to the consulate in DC over the summer asking if I qualified for the spousal VISA and I was told no. I saved the email because I thought it was hard to believe.
We have owned houses together and lived together for 10 years. I wonder if they just wouldn’t have accepted documents from the US as proof of co-habitation. I asked 3 different people at the Consulate and they all said that is the one area where the PACS is not equivalent to marriage.
I guess next year we will have EDF and France Telecom proof that we have lived together for a year, but I swear every official I asked said my status entitled me to nothing.
I am a student and am covered for healthcare so it doesn’t really matter for the moment and Jean-Jacques isn’t working so this arrangement is probably better right now.
My whole situation would have been easier if I had been able to get a CDS as a spouse. It’s not that I don’t believe you because I do, I am just incredulous that I was steered so wrong by the very officials who should know the rules. Maybe they meant for a VISA, but once we are here for a year and I can just apply for a CDS as you say then the VISA rules don’t apply.
Who knows, but you have given me hope that it will get easier. This I will have to research more.
Unfortunately this means eventually insisting to someone that I know the rules better than they do and you know how the French like to be told, especially by Americans.
Well, I don’t know about the Visa part, but I am 100% sure that you can get the same cds as a married person if you are pacsed!
I didn’t realize that you could get a CDS without a VISA so when I began asking the Consulate questions I was coming at them as if I were going to go as a student, which I am. If I knew I could have gotten a CDS just from being PACSed then I probably wouldn’t have gone on a student VISA. I would like to do another Masters degree but am glad that I won’t have to do that in order to keep my status. This is good news.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear - you can’t get a CDS without a Visa. What I was trying to say is that next time you renew, you can ask for the CDS vie privée et familiale if you want to. Or you can renew your student CDS if you want to do a masters - it’s up to you. The student CDS is free and the vie privée et familiale one is not, but it does give you the right to work full time (which the student CDS does not).
And you are the luckier ones, having a French citizen in your family. Ken and I are both Americans, so pacsing doesn’t make much difference and we’re on the CDS track (five annual renewals now) and we’re hoping that next year we will qualify for a 10-year residency permit.
We shall see!
I guess what I don’t get is why did the Consulate in DC told me that our PACS status did not allow me to get a VISA for the spouse of a French national. They said my only options were a Long Stay VISA for non-professional purposes or a student VISA. Since I wanted the possibility to work I went with the student VISA. Since I am taking language classes first and then probably will enter a University it is fine, BUT I’d prefer not to HAVE to do it to keep my status. I’d rather have a spousal VISA and enter a University when and if the timing is right and I feel like it.
It sounds like I could have gotten the spousal VISA. I saved all my communication with the Consulate because some of it was extremely contradictory.
I am out of the habit for the time being following the ins and outs of VISA’s and CDS but here is my real question. . .
Next year when it is time to renew,
I have to renew my VISA, what will I ask for?
If they tell me a VISA that allows me to work that is not a student VISA is not possible then what? Do I insist I know people who are PACSed and that have gotten spousal VISA’s? Does it matter if it is same gender or opposite gendered couples?
We are looking into meeting with an immigration lawyer but of course would prefer not to spend the money if we don’t have to.
If the Consulate tells me I can only get the VISA for non-professional purposes then can I still get a CDS vie privee et familiale?
The whole thing makes me feel like I am trying to do something questionable which we are not.
I am thinking of changing my address in the States to my mother’s address, NY, which would allow me to go to the Consulate in NYC rather than the one in DC. I have heard they are more helpful. Anyone have an opinion?
Ken and Walt, are you on non-professional purposes VISA’s? Each year you have to renew? What were you told that your options were, if it is not too private?
We don’t work in France. So our Cartes de Séjours are just visitor status, and we’ve renewed them every year since we’ve been here, without much trouble at all.
We got our Visas in San Francisco before we moved, back in 2003, and then immediately got our CDS. We’ve renewed them every year since. We hope we can qualify for 10 year permits this next year.
We both speak French very well, and we live in the countryside, without a big city to deal with. I think things are easier here for that reason. But I don’t know.
I wish you good luck. It’s hard to be a foreigner. Imagine what immigrants to the USA have to go through and you get a better appreciation for what it’s all about.
Sorry, just catching up on the comments now - you actually don’t have to renew your Visa, just your CDS (your visa is valid for as long as your CDS is valid). So at least that’s one less thing to worry about - you’ll never have to deal with the French consulate in the US again, only the préfecture here in France.
And like you, I first came here on a student visa b/c I wanted to have the right to work, and then I easily switched to the cds vie privée & familiale once we could show that we had un an de vie commune, and now I’ve been on that ever since.
This makes sense now. No one ever told me you only had to renew your CDS not your VISA. What a relief.
I never understood why I was told you could do the VISA for non-professional purposes and that after 1 year I would probably be eligible for a work permit. I could have gone and not worked for a year, in that year established that we lived together for a year and then gotten vie privée & familiale CDS.
I never understood why the student VISA was my next best option, other than having the ability to work. Now it all makes sense, until renewal time. Thanks
BTW, are you able to get a 10 year CDS yet or do you have to renew every year? Just trying to understand how long it takes to get to that point.
You used to be able to get a 10 yr cds after five continuous years in France, but I believe that just changed a few months ago. As I wrote on Walt’s blog, I know two different people that just tried to apply for the ten yr cds and they were both told that the new rule is that you had to have made at least 11,000€ per year for the past four years in France before you will be eligible (as proved by French tax returns). I don’t know if the 11,000 is net or gross though - guess I’ll find out in March when I go in to renew for the fifth time!!
Hi- Just read the comments on the cds and the pacs. My boyfriend and I pasc’d last february and I’m now waiting for the final approval for the recipisse with the right to work. Don’t know if my experience will help you or not (especially since you already received your cds) but hope this helps:
- you won’t need a visa once you apply for a cds vie prive et familiale
- once you apply for the “cds vp et f” you’ll receive a recipisse without the right to work then they’ll verify the papers and then you’ll receive another recipisse with the right to work and then finally the cds
- when you apply for the cds vp et f you’ll need to write to paris to ask for an attestation de pacs (don’t forget a copy of your ID and your pacs from toulouse)
Sounds like things are going well overall. Have been here for a while, since Sept 06 with a 7 month break in Niger, and am still waiting for the right to work. But overall the Vie Prive et Familiale is the easiest way to go after your student visa runs out.
On a lighter note, all this paperwork is so funny to me- especially the accordian-type file folders everyone has when going to the prefecture, the Secu, or any administrative place. Hope you’re enjoying Toulouse!
I have the right to work now on my student VISA. What would happen if I still had a job and then when I applied for my CDS vie privé et familiale there was a gap in when I could work? Would I have to quit my job? If as you say I would get my recipissé without the right to work immediately but then one would come later, what do I do in the meantime?
On a lighter note, yes the paper trail is amazing. Not just the accordian files but the pre-printed forms with carbon copies. I didn’t realize companies that made those types of forms still existed since you can make them all on a computer.
With your papers it is also amazing that some things that you think will go easily are difficult and the things you expect to be more difficult can turn out to be easy. It’s like it depends on their mood. I’m going to give the take 10 numbers at a time trick the next time I have to step foot into an admin building.